Let me really simplify what I want to say for everyone to easily understand and grasp this. For this I will explain it in the form of a short story
One day a boy named Rohan, went to Gujarat to learn a rare dish. This dish was, as told by his elders and friends as the best dish to taste which will give incomparable happiness. There he met a great chef Sameerji who knew all about the dish but had never made it nor did he see the dish being made neither tasted it. But the great chef knew lots and lots about the details of the dish, about the impact the dish has on the tongue, about the impact it has on the body, how long can it be preserved and how, etc. All this he had learned from his teacher who had actually made, tasted and experienced the dish. The chef’s teacher had experienced the dish and had written all about it and this came down to sameerji who had learned it by heart. He had never seen what the dish looked like but he kept visualizing it as per the description of his teacher. The more details he knew about it, the more he thought he was closer to experiencing it when one day, he knew all he could know about the dish without experiencing it and he thought that he has complete knowledge of this dish. Thus, he started teaching others about the dish(which in reality he himself did not know about). All his arguments made sense(because they were not his). All the details seemed correct(because they were experienced). So anyone who went to him would feel as if he was experiaced in this. But did this help in his curiosity to learn this dish or did it hamper his thought process but giving him the impression of having knowledge.
So Rohan now reached the gates of this great chef to learn this dish. He spent 25 years learning all about the dish and when he came out, he too thought that he now knew the dish completely and this was as much experience that a person can get about the dish because this was as much of an experience his teacher had got. So without having any practical knowledge of the way to make the dish, he knew everything in theory. Later on, this dish was put in front of him by a master chef in front of whom he had boasted of knowing this dish. To his surprise, inspite of knowing everything about the dish, he didn’t know about it one bit till the time he tasted it. Now, he knew why this dish was so great because it gave him incomparable happiness. He learnt an invaluable lesson, that the self experience is much greater than intellectualization of someone else’s experience. Thus, he studied under the master chef who did not teach him anything else but the taste of the dish (the thing that mattered).
In this story we understand that experience cannot be substituted in any other way. Thus in the field of spirituality, experience is the only way.
Thus, according to me, formal education in spirituality does not make any sense. Spirituality means to know of your spirit of your inner self. But the way to know your inner self is through experience and experience alone. Thus, instead of teaching one about the answers or the experience of some higher being, the person must perform the actions so as to gain this experience himself/herself and then validate it.
Hence, today, to me, the study of Vedanta darshan seems futile and must only be done to retrofit your experience and to validate it, not reach to it!!!!
Suchita-
ReplyDeletehey mannan v spoke abt dis earlier also n just wanna say dat u can gain experience only by implementing it in ur day 2 day routine.sprituality or inspiration will not cm by just thinking abt how to experience it.u r just now related to d above mentioned student who is just thinking how shld i gain experience n not willing 2 experience it.if u r actually willing 2 do it den start practicing frm dis moment.v all r being told at d ashram 2 do meditation,etc..... but do v do it regularly?its as if a horse can b taken 2 a river 2 drink water.d owner can even put d water in his mouth if d horse is dat dum but ultimately its he himself who has to swallow it.so ask questions show ur willingness 2wards experience n 1ce u hv it u will start practising it n u will get ur answer.
hope u take it in +ve sense.just try it 1ce
Manaan-
If u carefully observe, the "chefs" ask us to read the scriptures and learn and understand them... The meditation that is done there is not based on the self but it is based on a god, a murti, a form, which can never bring about a lack of dualism because u see something that is different from you,(which cannot be possible), plus for the japa etc, you cannot get realization by japa as japa is only a means to increase concentration and stimulate a certain movement of prana, at the most, using means of words to hit and stimulate chakras and dhamanis. and if u think that repeating shlokas is going to get u realization, uve got to be kidding, singing devotional songs in correct sur and taal is more or less a waste of time because vedanta is a gyana marga and not a bhakti one. Thus the only real attempt to know oneself is made by understanding the scriptures but again i am repeating by saying that, understanding it intellectually cannot bring about anything, only when it comes from within you, can u get the answer not by memorizing someone else's experiance, no matter how great. And in no way is understanding it intellectually a first step of gaining it from within. If that were the case, which scriptures had Jesus Christ studied?? which scriptured did Buddha study attaining enlightenment??? Which scriptures did Prophet Mohammad study???. Therefore, we must focus on the PROCESS of attaining the knowledge within us rather than focus on someone else's knowledge, which is not the process but the result and is only present for validating what has come from within you and not reaching it... by trying to think that u have understood it and thus have reached it is nothing else but fooling yourself.
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ReplyDeletehmm.. there is this thing called as alamban.. sometimes for those who are incapable of attainig the high to experience this 'thing'..the out of body experience (like me)...i believe it is necessary to educate the lost souls of the higher self..its apta praman of sorts..that look buddy this is where ur search ends.. or such an experience,or say sudden dawn of knowledge..this has been ur pursuit for all ur cycles of birth and death...unless someone educates him or augments his endeavour..that is what is alamban..guide him ..describe what he ought to look for..
ReplyDeleteand in that case the above modus operandi may prove exemplary..each to his own preferance.. the way they might like it..we are souls at different planes of intellectual capabilities .. with absolutely unique processors..and totally solitary stations of reasoning.. lets say this tasty delicacy could be savoured by the taste one likes best..again unique..
so for beginners its good to thrive on this fodder.. nurture themselves on this intellectual hunger.. to grow and reach upto higher planes .. where in they might come and ask questions just like u! see out of the box..but all this not until the fuel to fire.. the fairy in their fantasy..the soul in their body.. and this mode could well be employed to attain that!
my opinion.. i m too small to even blurt out this.. thanx for the opportunity though... the time employed to read this and brain mills churned to contemplate has been entirely amazing!
pacify me by dishing out more of these delicacies brother!!
You have made some good points here and i accept some points and some points need clarity;
ReplyDelete1. I understand that vedanta is the only darshan that points the finger at the moon, and for that i think it is good and necessary. But the study of this darshan, and i repeat, is only for people to realize where to go. But because all it says that realization lies within and the journey must be within, should a person start out with it. If u read in my story, u will find out that this knowledge of the dish was given to rohan by his elders and friends. The point im trying to make in this complete point is that now-a-days, the knowledge that you are not the body, atleast in india, is no longer a secret. We make jokes out of it, we repeat it. Everyone knows there is a soul (believeing it is a different thing altogether). So if u start your spiritual journey, no one starts off blank. They have all read a book or so at least and all books say the same thing in principle. So the times are changing and u dont need to memorize scriptures to know that u have to experiance urself which is different from ur body. So the times have changed and its not like in ancient days, that to know a fact u need to go to and ashram and learn for 5 years.
2. Let me quote my previous answer again "In no way is understanding it intellectually a first step of gaining it from within. If that were the case, which scriptures had Jesus Christ studied?? which scriptured did Buddha study for attaining enlightenment??? Which scriptures did Prophet Mohammad study???." In fact intellectualizing it gives u the feeling of being closer to experiancing it but its quite the opposite because if u have imagined it very well, u think that you know it better than others and thus your search slows down rather than speeding up
3. We do not have different intellectual capabilities. Intelligence cannot be of a personal factor. We are only tools out of which intelligence(which is universal)flows through. We can only tap onto so much intelligence that our body mind complex permits us too. So if anyone thinks that he has more intelligence than others, then he is really a fool because intelligence was never his, he was merely catching onto it
4. Many people think superiority complexes are really bad and should be avoided and so take on an inferiority complex to either
a. show that they are humble
b. show that they have reached a stage where ahamkara is breached or
c. Use it as a sarcasm to humiliate the other
Thus trying to remove one extreme by employing the other does not work. Take the middle path where ur at neither of the extremes is best
So ur statement "i m too small to even blurt out this" should not be repeated again.
Thanks for the comments... Hope i could satisfy you temporarily atleast.
There is an interesting book called the "God Genes", which talks about a propensity of certain individuals to embark on a journey to understand God and in extreme cases, get enlightened. For others, one needs to inculcate the attitude by using techniques like testimony, intellectual inference and some practice. This stimulates the upper chakras and leads to evolutionary trends.
ReplyDeleteSo, to run down or look upon those that use tools like study and practice of vedanta, is inappropriate. It is a useful stimulant. Though, as you very well build a case, its not enlightenment, but can serve as a tool towards the journey.
People exist at various levels of enlightenment. Very rare souls based on prarabdha and knowledge can remove the clouds completely, for others - partial removal is not so bad.
If you want to remove your ignorance by seeking direct experience, you are most welcome, but there are people who want to just taste and know about the dish, let them :)
This is like saying that if someone, blind, just wants a stick to see the world better rather than open his/her eyes. If that is what he/she wants then we cant really call him/her a seeker. But if that is the case then vedanta is good but there are better options like madhyastha darshan. But when i say "its futility," i mean its futility in attaining the final destination which according to its followers, it does. Thus to get a person to view this darshan in a balanced and correct perspective, it was written, not to run it down totally.
ReplyDeleteNice manh !!!!!!!!
ReplyDelete